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Rhingia rostrata?

 
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ajhotchkiss



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Montgomeryshire, Mid-Wales

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Rhingia rostrata? Reply with quote

I began a hoverfly survey of the National Botanic Garden of Wales in early April, but today I saw a very pale Rhingia.

Do you think the attached picture is Rhingia rostrata? Appologies for the poor quality.

The abdominal black markings were completely missing on the side, and it looked very different to all the Rhingia campestris I am seeing.

According to a Dyfed Invert. Group newsletter rostrata has been recorded a few miles down the valley in Llandeilo, and the Rhingia I saw today was very near to a badger sett -- badger latrines being a possible habitat requirement.

Alastair Hotchkiss
Biodiversity Officer, The National Botanic Garden of Wales


Last edited by ajhotchkiss on Fri May 09, 2008 10:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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ajhotchkiss



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Montgomeryshire, Mid-Wales

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Second Picture Reply with quote

Here is a second picture, in case the other one wasn't sufficient.

There are clearly no black bands around the abdomen in the picture, though there is one black mark at the end of the addomen.

Would be grateful to hear any comments.

Alastair
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Roger K.A. Morris



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 1649

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Rhingia rostrata Reply with quote

This looks promising - I hope you've kept the specimen

Regards

Roger
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ajhotchkiss



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Montgomeryshire, Mid-Wales

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: More rostrata Reply with quote

I did keep the specimen,

...and I went to the site again this morning, and counted at least 6 more nectaring on Yellow Archangel Lamiastrum galeobdolon, Ground Ivy Glechoma hederacea and Bluebell Hyacinthoides non-scripta.

I managed a better photgraph too.

Best wishes,

Alastair
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Roger K.A. Morris



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 1649

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please can I see a specimen

Sorry but there is a big issue developing with data coming from photographs - we can probably identify 100 of the 275 UK hoverfly species from exceptionally good photos - thereafter it is pure guesswork.

Please bear in mind that if you rely on photos you still rely on someone to kill specimens and develop a real knowledge of how to ID specimens. Bearing in mind you are I believe a biodiversity officer you must take account of the fact that BAP is wholly dependent upon sound ID and that is not possible from photos in about 80% of the UK fauna of hovers and probably 95% of fungus gnats or 100% of Haliplus - if we are not careful we will be monitoring the simple 100 and taking no account of the difficult 70% - which is where most of the problems lie. That is absolutely useless to biodiversity conservation so it is time to develop full taxonomic skills

Sorry for the rant but this is starting to be a mega problem that is going to have profound implications for the BAP industry with crap info in because no-one can ID the species that the BAP officers are busy creating plans to safeguard!!!!

Regards

Roger
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ajhotchkiss



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Montgomeryshire, Mid-Wales

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally understand the issues relating to data coming from photographs, and as such I have always been incredibly rigorous with both where data is sourced from, and which data is robust enough to go into the database.

But to make it clear, I personally do take identification and accurate recording seriously. I do not, and never have, relied on photographs to I.D hoverflies to species level, and consequently spent much of yesterday looking through a binocular microscope at Platycheirus and the genitalia of male sphaerophoria spp. in order to make an accurate ID.

I brought this Rhingia sighting to the forum through my interest, as both a species I havn't previously seen, and as one I initially only had a photograph of.

Alastair
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ajhotchkiss



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Montgomeryshire, Mid-Wales

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about that rant, I appreciate your concerns.

How would you like to see a specimen?

Regards,

Alastair Smile
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Roger K.A. Morris



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 1649

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - no probs - fair do's actually

No prob with your R. rostrata - your ID is fine actually

If you want material checking then send it to me via the post or perhaps hand carried by CCW staff visiting NE offices in Peterborough - Mike Howe hay be able to help and in actual fact I'd recommend seeking his advice anyway.

Do write a note on R. rostrata at least for the Hoverfly newsletter but perhaps also for Dipetrists Digest

Regards

Roger
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